Interesting stuff and I think you are spot on about engineering. BUt you are completely wrong about liberal arts. What people fail to realise is that the point of a liberal arts degree is NOT to learn the material. It is to learn to understand, to think and to write. And to do all of them across a wide range. For example, while your reading of Orwell and Russell is great, your failure with Marx is troubling and I'm sorry, but liking Ayn Rand shows exactly what you missed with a true liberal arts degree. And what about shakespeare, chaucer, keats, yeats, austen, Lewis, goethe, etc etc?

Having said that, I think the opposite is true in liberal arts to engineering in terms of what school you attend. A community college will teach you almost nothing (unless you are very lucky with your particular teachers) and nor will a big name academic mill. Instead an old liberal arts only institution is what you want.

Having said all that, what do I know? I was educated in England and learned a LOT more in high school than University. I got a degree in mathematics and computer science and ended up being a writer and editor.

I like the certification concept, and I agree that the relatively importance placed on research relative to teaching at prestigious research universities can cut into their investment in undergraduate education.

That said, I'm pretty impressed with the folks coming out of MIT and CMU, the two schools I was lucky enough to attend. Granted, a lot of their talent reflects the filters they apply at admission time. But I spend enough time with current students to see how those students advance over time.

I'm not suggesting that you can't obtain a fine engineering education for less money or at a less prestigious school. But, conversely, I think that the idea that top schools aren't educating their students doesn't pass empirical muster. And I can say for myself that I learned an enormous amount at both schools.

Perhaps computer science and math are different than other subjects. I'll concede that I don't interact as much with English majors.

The American liberal arts education is similarly stratified, but within departments and universities rather than across them. I added what was essentially an official second major in literary studies by picking and choosing courses across departments for teaching-oriented professors, while officially majoring in economics (which is close to hard science but yet so far). Perhaps at the same time we decouple the BA from professional qualifications, we should liberate it from the constraints of majors that subsidize bad teachers with students' required attention.

As one who dropped out of college and learned a trade (thanks to the Air Force), I've found that my technical training was more useful than anything I learned in college.  I did, however, have the advantage of a high school education from an era where teaching the basics was important.  

My father taught me that if I could read I could teach myself anything, but if I could write I would never be jobless.  He was right.

Owen,
 You haven't been to a liberal arts program in the US recently, I assume. It is safe to say the only thing they are doing to Shakespeare is to deconstruct him. And on Ayn Rand, you had to have been in India in the 1980s to understand her appeal. By then, it was very obvious the socialist mixed economy claptrap was failing, but the system was morally bankrupt to acknowledge it. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" - as Barry Goldwater had it.

Sridhar

Interesting article. I actually spent years doing Comp. Sci "research" at a mid-level research university here in the States.

Sadly, it took me several years to realize that my work, my "research", was worthless. It was, as you say, trivia. The only real effect was to generate papers and get my advisor tenure. (I was an undergrad, and my advisor was a master of hype and an academic rock-star. Very charismatic guy. He attracted many star-struck young geeks like me.)

The research group I was part of did graphics research. Which meant we played around with a lot of toy problems. Most of my time was spent creating cool "demos" so my advisor could get funding and good press coverage.

My excuse is I was young and stupid. But, at the time, I honestly thought I was doing real research. I had to compete hard to get my place in his research group. And my advisor eventually ended up at CMU. So the implicit bargain was his recommendation could get you into a top grad school.

I would have been better off focusing my energies on mastering the core math, engineering, and science classes my university offered. Especially since, once I decided to reduce my "research" output, my advisor refused to write a recommendation for me. Ah well, live and learn.

[...] WSJ Op-Ed: For Most People College is a Waste of Time [...] 

Hi guys! Your take on the modern education system is an engaging read, Sridhar. Many youngsters too, are of the opinion that run off the mill courses in graduation are hardly much use in today's dynamic scenario. It is with an increasing urge to excell in a specific field that today's generation is pursuing education. Bearing this in mind, some radical and eminent educationalists like Dr. Arun Nigvekar have come together and founded India's first and only Creativersity in Seamless Education Academy. SeamEdu is an academy where students can learn the tricks of off-beat trades like Radio Jockeying, Sound Engineering, Animation, Gemmology and Broadcast Media. SeamEdu has come up with a blog (www.seamlesseductaionalacademy.blogspot.com) where they keep posting articles on news relevent to their subjects and courses. I think that such initiatives that give a focus to the overwhelming creativity of this generation should really be commended.

Hi guys! your post is really an engaging read, Sridhar. It is so true that the quality of education in the routine courses is becoming hihly inacceptible. most of teh students of this generation are in a rut, where they see that they cannot find employment even after expenisve graduation degrees for lack of practical knowledge.
in pune, though, many educationalists like Dr. Arun Nigvekar have come together to form Seamless Education Academy, that is the first and only Creativersity in India. they have very recently launched a blog (www.seamlesseducationacademy.blogspot.com) as well. it seems here that they want to give a focus to the creative genius in their students in RJ, Sound Engineering, Gemmology, Animation and Broadcast Media. i think that initiatives like these are a ray of hope and really need to be commended.